baratron: (goggles)
[personal profile] baratron
Unsettling encounter with a student. He turned up wanting to have a lesson on a topic that only appears on the IB syllabus - it's not part of A-level. So it's not something I already had a set of notes or questions prepared for. Managed to find some questions in one of my books, but my printer/scanner/photocopier doesn't photocopy books very well. There's a corner shop about 5 minutes' walk away that has a proper photocopier, so I was going to run round there, except I didn't already have my boots on. He was still wearing shoes and volunteered to go instead of me.

I don't know exactly what happened, but a 10 minute round trip turned into half an hour (he admitted he'd somehow managed to go the wrong way, despite my clear instructions of "Go to the mini-roundabout & turn left - you'll see a wine shop, a bridal shop and the corner shop, called [name deleted]") and he came back in a foul mood without the photocopies. Apparently the way the photocopier was set up made it impossible for him to get the book to copy properly (also despite my clear instructions of how to do A3 to A4 reduction). But even though he couldn't get the copies, the guy who was working in the shop at the time still wanted 10p for the messed-up paper. This had made him angry.

He said "I'm not racist, but I hate these grasping Asian businessmen."

My response should have been "If you're not racist, why did you need to specifiy an ethnicity?"

It's a historical accident that the vast majority of corner shops in this country are run by Asians. It's to do with the way Britain went out and colonised parts of the Indian subcontinent, and the fact that when our "colonists" came to settle in the UK, they found that racist attitudes about the quality of their education prevented them from getting a lot of jobs. To pay their children's way through university, so the same arguments wouldn't be applied to the second generation, they took whichever niche work was available to them. In the 1950s and 60s, supermarkets were starting to push the traditional grocers, greengrocers and butchers out of business. But supermarkets tended to be available only in the very centres of large towns, and people who lived in smaller towns or villages, or who didn't have ready access to transport, couldn't always manage to get into the supermarket - especially if it was for one "emergency" item like milk. Hence the idea of a corner shop was a niche market for the Asian immigrants to take. The fact that the immigrants wanted to work as hard as possible so they could afford the best possible for their children meant that corner shops started to be open later than the old grocers and greengrocers they replaced, and as many of them were not Christian, they had no qualms about opening on Sundays. Nowadays, a large proportion of the corner shops on the outskirts of urban areas are run by people of various Asian origins - some of them even second- or third-generation British Asians.

"I hate these grasping Asian businessmen." What do you think he meant by that? A sweeping generalisation about all Asian businessmen? Or just about corner shop owners? People who run corner shops are usually Asian, but... they vary. Within the local area, I can think of 8 corner shops run by Asian people, 2 of which are very well-run, 3 of which are okay, 2 of which are kinda crappy and I'd only go there if I didn't have another choice, and 1 I've never been into because there are other good ones closer. One of the shops in particular is so good I'll go out of my way to go there - they always have lots of staff who are able to help you, their photocopiers are well maintained, they provide a variety of services (including an internet cafe and passport photography), and they stock some sweets that are hard to buy anywhere else. One of them is really awful - they stock hardly anything I want to buy, the guy who runs it smokes and smokes in the shop, so it always smells bad and I have to use my inhaler if I'm going in there, if he's talking on the phone when you go in, he won't interrupt his conversation while he's serving you, and they keep semi-erratic hours so you can never be sure if the shop will be open in the early morning or evening or at weekends. But it's at the end of our road, and sometimes it's the only place I can go to get a bus ticket or Oyster top-up. I do go out of my way to buy nothing there except the bus ticket, though.

So I'm not even sure you can make sweeping overgeneralisations about Asian shop-owners, let alone the entire class of Asian businessmen. Some of them are extremely competent and professional, and others are a disgrace to humanity. Just like people of every ethnic origin.

Perhaps he didn't really mean the "Asian", it just got appended to the sentence because that particular shop owner was Asian. I hate "grasping" businessmen too - the ones who want to charge you good money for rubbish. But I've encountered those in enough different contexts not to generalise about the race or class of the person who's going to try to rip me off. (I have discovered that eBay sellers who write ENTIRELY IN BLOCK CAPITALS WIT TEH TYP0S AND SPEELING MISTOOKS are likely to be people who will be difficult for one reason or another, but that's a different type of overgeneralisation, I think.)

But the worst thing about it is that he's a white, privileged, upper middle class person - and he assumed that I was too. From what, I don't know. Yes, I went to a "good" school, yes, I am middle class, yes, my skin is even fairly pale in colour. But I'm not white. I identify as mixed race, white & Asian. And if you're going to make sweeping generalisations about Asian businessmen, that's my dad you're talking about.

I don't have another lesson with this student booked. I'm not sure what to say if he contacts me again. I feel as though I should bring up what he said in anger and point out it was inappropriate. But then again, I do know he was angry, and a lot of people - particularly young people - say stupid things when they're angry.

I could just shut up & take his money. But wouldn't that make me a "grasping (half-)Asian business(wo)man"?

Date: 2006-09-02 04:03 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] xiphias.livejournal.com
I feel as though I should bring up what he said in anger and point out it was inappropriate. But then again, I do know he was angry, and a lot of people - particularly young people - say stupid things when they're angry.

Why should that be any mitigating factor? Do you think that the only racists are people who go around badmouthing people of other ethnicities when they're happy?

Racism comes out when people are angry.

He said "I'm not racist, but I hate these grasping Asian businessmen."

My response should have been "If you're not racist, why did you need to specifiy an ethnicity?"


No, your response should have been, "Wrong: You ARE racist. What you just said is purely, totally, and completely racist, and nothing else. Had you said, 'I hate grasping businessmen,' or, 'I hate THAT businessmen,' that wouldn't have been racist, but to say, 'I hate those grasping Asian businessmen' is 100% textbook example smack dab in the bulls-eye racist. Nothing more, nothing less -- pure racism, and if you don't want to be a racist, you'd better figure out what made you say that, and root it out of your soul with a grapefruit spoon. Oh, and I'm Asian, and this session is over, and don't ever come back."

Date: 2006-09-02 04:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jinian.livejournal.com
That response would be rather fulfilling, but righteous indignation isn't always the best way to get people to understand anything beyond "that person is freaking out." I think H-L's response would do that a bit better.

Date: 2006-09-06 09:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] baratron.livejournal.com
Do you think that the only racists are people who go around badmouthing people of other ethnicities when they're happy?

Do you think I've never encountered racism directed at myself or my family members before? Mixed race has only been a recognised ethnic origin in the UK since 2001 (http://society.guardian.co.uk/societyguardian/story/0,,1865214,00.html) (link to a newspaper article from today). Nowadays in London, I see lots of children that have differently coloured skin from the parent or grandparent they're with, but when I was a kid in smalltown suburban Surrey, I was the only one.

I loved the house I lived in when I was a teenager, but the neighbours on one side were racist. My dad was a "wog" and my mum was a "white wog" or a "wog lover". Those were the politest terms. It got worse - bleach poured on plants, noxious substances splashed over the fence when she knew there was someone on the other side, nails in car tyres. Nowadays, in multicultural London, after Stephen Lawrence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Lawrence), if something like that happened, I'd go to the police right away - but 15 years ago in suburban Surrey, it wasn't really an option. Even if you could find a police officer with enough experience of racial assault to understand, getting a restraining order out against a neighbour would make life more hell than just putting up with it.

I know what racism is. I don't have daily experience of it, nor have I been physically attacked because of it (I do have daily experience of bullying, including physical attacks - and, like I said, it was pure luck that my family members were not injured by bleach flying over the fence). What I'm unsure about is what degree of racism this is, and whether race hatred was the real motive for what he said. Bearing in mind his position as an upper middle class privileged individual, it could just as easily be classism, something that almost all of us in the UK are guilty of at some point, often even unashamedly. (It would take a much longer post than this to go into the class system in the UK and I'm not really qualified to do so - suffice to say, it's much more complicated than the US, and when John Major said we were living in a classless society he was being shamelessly naive). It could also be scapegoating, an intelligent person caught out trying to hide his own incompetence behind another individual. (He, after all, even admitted that he walked the wrong way despite my instructions.)

And there is the issue of what I, a 5' 0" 9 stone female, should be saying to a 5' 10" 15 stone rugby-playing male who is angry enough to have lost control of himself to that extent. I believe in calming the situation down and tackling it with a clear head, rather than escalating things to possible violence.

Date: 2006-09-02 04:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] esbat.livejournal.com
I'm much more likely to be forgiving of someone who's still quite young and unlikely to have been able to forge reasoned ideals beyond those instilled upon them by their family and friends. If the opportunity arises, having a calm discussion with him about why he thinks the way he does is much more likely to be fruitful than getting annoyed or ignoring him. If he is any way intelligent, he may just need someone to demonstrate another way of looking at things. The best way to entrench racism is to meet it with an equal and opposite measure of anger and intolerance.

Date: 2006-09-02 04:57 pm (UTC)
ext_99997: (Default)
From: [identity profile] johnckirk.livejournal.com
Yeah, I'd basically agree with that. I remember a conversation with my mother when I was a kid, where she was teaching me about "those evil immigrants who come over here and steal all our jobs" (paraphrased from memory). I then said "But what about Hasan?" He was a Cypriot Turk that I went to school with, and one of my few friends, so I think that put her in a slightly awkward situation of not wanting to criticise him; she basically said "Well, he's alright, but it's the rest of them who are a problem".

That's stuck in my mind, because I think that exceptions are the best way to oppose any generalisation/stereotype. In this case, if he didn't realise that [livejournal.com profile] baratron is Asian, then simply pointing that fact out (calmly) may be enough to make him reconsider his views.

Date: 2006-09-06 09:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] baratron.livejournal.com
The problem is, there are a lot of people who are happy to turn around and say "I didn't mean you, I meant those other blacks / Asians / Jews / Irish / Eastern Europeans / gays / lesbians / disabled people / fat people ..." - and mean it! They're honestly happy to hold in their heads an opinion that All People in Category X are Evil (Except The Ones I Know). [livejournal.com profile] ailbhe has experience of this from the Irish point of view, many of the rest of us from the queerfolk point of view. ("You're ok, it's those other gays who are perverts.")

What this shows is that most people are much less logical than they think they are, and that this applies double when it comes to prejudice.

Date: 2006-09-02 05:39 pm (UTC)
barakta: (Default)
From: [personal profile] barakta
It's the posh version of my cousins "Paki shop" or "Darkie" *cringe*.

I think the "I'm half Asian myself you know" response might have shocked him and made him apologise if not rethink his statement. However in your situation it is difficult enough with a 'one-off' student who you don't have the time to get to know.

If he was otherwise an okay student I'd accept further work from him, and be prepared for racist comments which you can point out are racist and not terribly acceptable. I don't consider this 'money grabbing' in any way, it is making a living. I am sure ALL tutors/teachers have had to teach students with unthought or worse unpleasant views/attitude/behaviour.

Date: 2006-09-02 07:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hiddenpaw.livejournal.com
I can fully understand the moral problems of running a business and doing business with moraly objectionable people. Now I'm back out in Kedington I fill in at my mum and dad's newsagents on a regular basis (As opposed to paying rent on my flat which is above the shop). This means we sell newspapers and unfortunatly some of our customers belive every word they read. They make comments about the front pages and I really want to say to them "Don't you realise that what you are reading is blatently wrong and in many cases totaly untrue." but I can't say that because I'm the one selling the paper and it's not my business to ruin. It's not helped by the fact our two biggest sellers on Sundays are the Mail and The News of the World.
These days I actualy feel worse some days about selling Papers than I do about selling tobacco.

I will admit We would never charge for a photo copy if we got it wrong.

Date: 2006-09-03 04:55 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] keldaryth.livejournal.com
And I hate incompetant gweilos - but that's just me :p

K

Date: 2006-09-03 09:40 am (UTC)
firecat: damiel from wings of desire tasting blood on his fingers. text "i has a flavor!" (Default)
From: [personal profile] firecat
You don't have to do anything. If you felt like being nice to him, you could point out his error. It would be nice because if he keeps on with the narrow minded point of view that he can make racist generalizations to anyone who looks white and middle class, someday he is going to put his foot in his mouth around someone who has power over him, and that might cost him.

Date: 2006-09-03 01:35 pm (UTC)
redbird: closeup of me drinking tea, in a friend's kitchen (Default)
From: [personal profile] redbird
Other possible answers would have been "he's not racist either. He doesn't let anyone waste supplies he has to pay for" or "So, if he were white you wouldn't mind paying for the supplies you used up?" Because what's going on there, along with the racism, is the upper-class privileged assumption that he gets to use things, and use them up, and other people should pay for them, even though he can almost certainly spare 10p more easily than they can.

But that doesn't answer the larger question, which is whether you want to keep dealing with him, and if so, what to say to him about this. And I can't answer the first half of that for you. Well, one thought: a lot of people say stupid things when they're angry. Pointing out to them that they shouldn't have said them, and why, is entirely reasonable. From that viewpoint, it would be fair and sensible for you to tell him "I don't know if I want you back, because I won't put up with racist remarks in my home or on our time" and see where it goes from there. If he says he didn't mean it, you can point out that not meaning it is good, and not saying it is also important.

Date: 2006-09-06 09:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] baratron.livejournal.com
Because what's going on there, along with the racism, is the upper-class privileged assumption that he gets to use things, and use them up, and other people should pay for them, even though he can almost certainly spare 10p more easily than they can.

In. A. Nutshell. You see, this is why people think you're wise & sensible when you give them advice on the internet :)

I do feel there was a lot of scapegoating going on - he was embarrassed to have messed up, and rather than apologising and accepting responsibility, he needed to pass the blame onto someone else. It's a typical young person response when they're caught out, and it persists even into adulthood - even now, Richard has an alarming habit of physically squirming before telling me an outright lie in certain situations (smoking). I think it's something to do with the way figures of authority behave - if you get into more trouble when you tell the truth than if you lie, it reinforces the idea that lying is the way to go :/

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